Denis Oštir, editor-in-chief at V, sat down with StreamTV Insider’s Bevin Fletcher to chat about three topics key in streaming and for which the company is making moves: Content discovery, unified measurement and bundles.
AI and metadata for content discovery
Oštir previously spoke with StreamTV Insider about V’s data-driven approach to content, where he described being a proponent of AI but emphasized the need for humans in the loops, saying if all recommendations were left to AI and algorithms it would create a huge problem.
Still, as data from Gracenote has shown, consumers on average spend more than 10 minutes trying to find something to watch, so content discovery is not an ideal user experience.
So where can AI play a role to improve content discovery?
According to Oštir, the first step is to get metadata from partners, where AI can then help enrich and fill in missing identifiers or information about content that’s needed to surface it appropriately and effectively for viewers.
“Where we have metadata gaps, for example, that is where we could use AI to fulfill those, to get content descriptions,” he said. For example, if V has a title but lacks more information like casts, producers and so on.
In addition, AI can play a role in title card or images that viewers see when they’re looking for content. V might only get one image from a content partners, but AI can come in to resize it appropriately for all of the various placements within the TVOS platform.
“Once we have the proper metadata, that is where content discovery comes into place,” he said, be that automatically using AI to surface relevant recommendations or with a more manual human assist – something the executive believes will still play a role.
“I think manual still is an important part of it, to shorten the time it takes for people to get to that content,” he noted. “I don't think AI is going to completely eliminate that.”
Let the ego go
But before AI and better metadata can help on the content discovery front, Oštir emphasized there needs to be recognition by the broader industry of content and app providers in terms of loosening their grip on access to metadata and giving platform partners like V more visibility into what’s available inside of their apps. That’s needed so V can effectively surface content from across the many streaming services available and actually get viewers to the app and content they want.
Or as Oštir put it, “We need to get over the ego of ‘my brand is the brand that I'm protecting’.” Saying instead, “No, let's just get the content in front of the consumers. Shorten the time it takes for them to get to actual content they want to watch. Get them inside of it.”
That isn’t currently the case as consumers may still need to navigate in and out of apps to find what content they’re looking for, in part because app owners appear protective over data for competitive purposes and appear less than eager to share.
While that fragmentation of streaming services and content may cause headaches for consumers for the aforementioned reason, Oštir has no problem with a sea of apps as long as they’re sharing data that makes it possible for a platform partner like V to surface content and let users know what’s available in them without an arduous search or discovery process.
“We can have 20 applications. That's easy. No problem. What we need to get is get those 20 applications to understand that sharing the metadata with the platform itself [is] where they can make the user experience better,” he explained. “That is the key to making sure that customers are going to get inside of those applications to watch their content.”
Unified measurement for streaming and broadcast
Another topic top of mind in the TV sphere is measurement and one where V wants there to be less distinction between traditional linear and CTV or streaming (a stance also evident in the company’s latest tagline is “TV is TV”).
In terms of measurement, “the biggest challenge that we have is that we have two worlds colliding here. We have the broadcast world on one side and then we have digital world on the other side,” Oštir said.
The issue being that the measurement world considers watching via these two delivery modes as completely distinct, where in V’s view, the consumption is still happening on the same device (ie TV).
“We need to merge those two,” he emphasized.
And V is working to do so with the introduction of its own Index solution, which is a single unified measurement system on the operating system platform – where viewing digitally or via broadcast aren’t siloed for measurement.
The company is still working to get all of the pieces in place and communicate properly but Oštir noted that V is open to “everyone to join us” or working with another partner to make it a third-party measurement solution.
“We just want to make sure that the device itself is measured properly.”
How does that benefit V, its partners and the industry at large?
“It benefits the industry because it's fair. That's the first thing,” he said, adding there’s no logic in separate ways of measuring consumption that is taking place on the TV screen.
Without fair measurement, content might not get funds
Also important to Oštir is that content being made and watched is getting properly monetized, including via advertising – as there can be discrepancies in prices paid for digital versus broadcast advertising. Ultimately, that’s because he believes the industry needs “to understand that we need to give proper money to people that are making content.”
And if measurement isn’t giving proper credit that’s required in order to generate those ad dollars that are in turn needed to reinvest in content, he foresees a big issue down the line.
Because while he noted that in the short-term cheaper ads might be a good thing, long-term it could mean not enough dollars to go around for quality content.
“Five years down the road, if this continues, there's not going to be any money or enough money to produce quality content. And then we all have a huge problem.”
Agnostic bundler
The final topic Oštir discussed is bundles – which have cropped up in spades in recent years and proven popular.
Recent data from Antenna estimates bundles now account for one-third of new signups for major SVODs and 28% of all total subscriptions, double that of 2024.
TVOS platforms aren’t necessarily the first to mind when it comes to providers of streaming bundles, but V sees itself in a prime position to offer subscriptions and combined offerings.
As Oštir put it, V is “dipping our toes in the field…but we know that this is the future.”
With control over the UI and its OS serving as the landing page of the living room’s largest screen, he believes “it’s just organically where these bundles should occur.”
And from V’s position he believes the company would be able to properly allocate revenues among partners, where it’s also in the process of rolling out a payment solution.
Other providers like cable, including Charter, already offer bundled subscription and entertainment options with other services, including through a digital app store within the Spectrum app and available on Xumo devices. But with more migration to CTV, “we believe that the OS as a platform has the opportunity to be there” to provide bundles.
Still, it’s not the only platform player looking to offer subscriptions and bundles, as Roku continues to grow its own roster of premium subscription partners.
However ,V sees itself in a unique position in that the company’s primary focus is to be a TV OS platform – meaning it doesn’t have a content play or streaming of its own, nor ties to ad tech or servers. A factor Oštir suggested makes it a more neutral provider for these bundles and able to more fairly distribute revenue as it doesn’t have its own interest to promote one service or offering over another.
In addition to a natural fit for consumers, Oštir noted benefits V’s platform brings for subscription or bundle partners, where viewers can select if they want to purchase that subscription in combination with another third-party,
“It's access to customers. That's what we offer. We got a payment solution, which you can plug into. And then here's access to 50 million homes” he explained.
Bevin Fletcher:
Hi, everyone. Welcome and thanks for joining us. I'm Bevin Fletcher, senior editor of StreamTV Insider, and I'm here with Denis Oštir, Editor-in-Chief of SmartTV OS operating system V. Hey, Denis, how are you?
Denis Oštir:
Hello, doing great. It's Friday evening, so how could I be?
Bevin Fletcher:
Ahead of the weekend, good place to be. Now, okay, so we've spoken before about your data-driven approach to Continent V, and you told me you're a proponent of AI, but you kind of emphasized the need for a human in the loop saying if everything was left up to AI and algorithms, it would be a huge problem basically for recommendations.
But we also see data from Gracenote and others showing it takes consumers on average more than 10 minutes to find something to watch. So content discovery isn't ideal. So I guess with that in mind, is there any kind of concrete examples that V is either working on currently or that you see near term future of where AI can make a significant impact on helping content discovery and a better user experience?
Denis Oštir:
So I think the first step is getting metadata from partners. I think that is where AI could help. Where we have metadata gaps, for example, that is where we could use AI to fulfill those, to get content descriptions, for example, done automatically, to go around the web, figure out what a piece of content is to fill in the missing gaps. For example, a partner might only give us one image. Right? Now we have to resize that image into various sizes for different placements across the platform.
We could use AI to do that. Also, we could use it to, again, we have one image, maybe we want to make different variations out of it, not purely just cropping it, but actually making new images out of it. We could do that. We could also fill in the gaps of we have a title but we don't have, for example, the cast or we don't have information about additional cast there or producers. That is all where we could use to fulfill the gaps that are missing.
And then once we have the proper metadata, that is where content discovery comes into place. That is where we can actually then go out and place that in launcher, either automatically using AI to get the proper recommendations or manually, like you've said, I think manual still is an important part of it to shorten the time it takes for people to get to that content. I don't think AI is going to completely eliminate that. It cannot completely eliminate it.
What can eliminate it is the understanding inside of our industry that these walled gardens where you create your own application, everything's mine and I'm hiding everything from everyone else, that is what is actually preventing customers from getting inside of the applications. Because they don't know what's inside. Right? I need to figure out, "Okay, I want to watch my football game tonight or I want to watch my soccer game.
The World Cup is coming. What is the platform on which I'll be able to watch that piece of content?" Now, if I need to figure it out, I need to get inside of an application and see, "Okay, it's not there." I have to go inside another application. It's not there. I just want to watch football. I just want to watch soccer. It's just get it in front of me.
And that's something that we need to get across. We need to get over the individual... I'm going to even say it's an ego thing. Right? We need to get over the ego of my brand is the brand that I'm protecting. It's super important that everybody knows me. Right? No, let's just get the content in front of the consumers, shorten the time it takes for them to get to actual content they want to watch, get them inside of it. And we are willing to help there.
Bevin Fletcher:
Right. So it's that fragmentation aspect, but then you need the data to be able to bring it all together for the user.
Denis Oštir:
Here's the thing is fragmentation is not bad. I don't mind that there's so many applications out there. I really don't. That's not the problem. The problem is how do we get people to understand what is inside of those applications? It's fine. We could have 20 applications.
That's easy. No problem. What we need to get is get those 20 applications to understand that sharing the metadata with the platform itself where they can make the user experience better. That is the key to making sure that customers are going to get inside of those applications to watch their content.
Bevin Fletcher:
Makes sense. Interesting. Okay. I do want to switch gears a little, but also kind of on the topic of fragmentation in terms of apps and distribution modes, it can pose a challenge for measurement. So I'm kind of curious, do you see any one biggest hurdle for more unified measurement across streaming and broadcast? And can you talk about why it's kind of important to have that more holistic view as viewers are migrating to streaming?
Denis Oštir:
I mean, the main burden is just the understanding inside of the industry. Again, it's we're facing the same problem. Everybody needs to understand that having walled gardens where everybody's keeping stuff for themselves, not willing to share with anyone and just like, "This is mine. I'm in here," that is preventing the industry from moving forward. Right? The biggest challenge that we have is that we have two worlds colliding here.
We have the broadcast world on one side and then we have digital world on the other side. When it comes to streaming, we've sort of agreed for whatever reason or we were forced to agree that the measurement needs to be coming from the digital space. So suddenly streaming on the same device, and this is the problem that we have on our side. It's like we're watching a TV. Right? The TV is the same device, same screen, two ways the signals coming in.
It doesn't make any sense for digital to be measured, or meaning streaming to be measured the digital way and then all of the broadcast stuff and the cable stuff being measured the broadcast way. One of it being the broadcast way being measured the GRPs and TRPs, growth rate imports, target rating points. And then we have the streaming world being measured in hours of consumption and advertising being sold at two different weights. We have to consolidate that into one thing.
It doesn't make any sense. Can you imagine this? If I'm watching my football and the signal is coming through my cable box, or if it's coming through my... Let's say my streaming application, the world is considering, the measurement we're just considering is those two completely different things. And it's on the same device. It's on the TV. Right? I'm watching on the same thing. We need to merge those two.
We've introduced our own solution called the index. We're still gathering all our information, making sure that it's properly communicated to everyone, but we're going to introduce that, a single unified measurement system on our platform. Now we are open to everyone to join us or we are open to work with someone else to make it a third party thing. Right? We just want to make sure that the device itself is measured properly. It's not one card measured digitally, the other part measured in a broadcast way. We need to have a unified solution.
Bevin Fletcher:
And because what does that ultimately then, how does that benefit you and your partners by bringing that together?
Denis Oštir:
I mean, it benefits the industry because it's fair. That's the first thing. It is very fair. It does not matter. There's no logic in it that we would have two ways of measuring it. And the other thing which is super, super important for me is we need to understand that we need to give proper money to people that are making content. I'll give you one example. So if I'm watching a piece of content on the broadcast side and if I'm watching the same piece of content on the streaming side, there can be a discrepancy between advertising revenues on the same piece of content depending on how it comes in.
And that discrepancy could be 10X because the digital world is forcing the digital metrics into the TV space. This is what we've... Even in Lisbon, we said TV is TV. Right? We want this to be the same. Now, with everything moving towards stream, a lot of the content distribution is moving towards streaming, people are watching more and more streaming and this being much, much, much cheaper than this, that means that the amount of money which is going to be given in advertising money towards people making content is going to be much lower.
And we have to, as an industry, understand that yes, it might be a short-term thing. It's good to have cheaper ads. Right? But long-term, if nobody's going to be producing content, content is not getting cheaper. It is not getting disproportionately cheaper if it's being served on streaming. It's actually getting even more expensive. So what you need to understand is if five years down the road, if this continues, there's not going to be any money or enough money to produce quality content. And then we'll all have a huge problem.
Bevin Fletcher:
So looking at through the long-term lens, I see.
Denis Oštir:
Yeah.
Bevin Fletcher:
Makes sense. Interesting. Okay. Another topic, bundles, which have also cropped up in spades and proven popular. I think I saw some recent Antenna data that bundles now account for one third of all new streaming signups and I think maybe 28% of total subscriptions, which is double from 2024. But I will say TV OS platforms aren't necessarily who I think of first when it comes to bundles. So how do bundles play a role in the V ecosystem and kind of how do you work for that for your platform and your partners?
Denis Oštir:
Yeah. So we're currently, I'm going to say we're tipping our toes into the field. Right? But we know that this is the future. Now we are organically the place where people interact with a big device. We're the native thing on the TV. Right? So it does make sense if I turn on my TV and imagine this in the future. I've got an option of I turn on the TV and I select, I want to watch X, Y, Z, D. Those are the three applications I want to do, one click, fingerprint, whatever it is, boom, I've subscribed to all four.
It's just organically where these bundles should occur. From our side, it just makes sense because we control the user experience on the TV. We would have the option to properly allocate the revenues between them and the person is interacting with the OS itself. Right? When they turn on the TV, we are there. Right? So we also have the account on the TV. We are right now rolling out a payment solution, which also organically means that we would be able to do it.
It might be that right now the cable operators are the big one when it comes to someone accessing it through the cable. Right? But with all of it moving natively to the TV itself, we believe that the OS as a platform has the opportunity to be it. And here's the trick. As an OS platform, we have an interest in being only a platform. Right? If you're going to someone that is an operator or someone that is a streaming platform as well, there's always going to be a question of fair distribution of revenues. Are we going to push someone else more than someone else? We are purely a platform. For us, it's we got the end consumer in front of the TV.
We don't own a platform, we don't own an advertising server. We just the platform that gives people access to those applications. So we are the neutral partner there and I think this is where we should be building the trust on. We are not someone that also at the same time owns an advertising agency at the same time owns its own streaming solution. Right? Then if I were a partner, if I were a third party provider, if I had a streaming platform, I would go, "Hmm, why should I partner with you inside of a bundle if you also have a platform? How does that work? Are you going to take more money from me or?"
Bevin Fletcher:
So you're more of a content agnostic neutral player?
Denis Oštir:
Completely, completely. You're correct. We want to be a platform. We want to be completely agnostic.
Bevin Fletcher:
But in a way, building your own channel store, it sounds like?
Denis Oštir:
And again, we are not building our own channel store. Here's the trick is we do not make our own channels. We don't even license content on our own. So what we offer access to 50 million homes across the world, it's going to grow now to probably 55, 60, 65 towards the end of the year. So this is what we offer. If somebody has a channel, they can put the channel on our platform. If somebody has an app, they can put the app on our platform.
If somebody has a shop, they can put that shop on our platform. We do not go out there and say, "Listen guys, Sony or Paramount, here's $5 million. We want to license our content, then we're going to sell it or we're going to make our channel ourselves." That is not what we do. We want to be completely agnostic and offer services. We are a platform. That's what we do.
Bevin Fletcher:
Maybe subscription marketplace or some other term was more what I was looking for.
Denis Oštir:
But here's the thing, what we offer to those guys is, again, it's access to the end customers. That's what we offer. We got a payment solution which you can plug into and then here's access to 50 million homes. If you want to be part of this bundle where somebody can select if they're going to buy you in combination with someone else and a third party, that's what we offer. But we are completely agnostic when it comes to that.
Bevin Fletcher:
Yeah. And you give them that reach. And then I think some data has also shown bundles are proving successful at reducing churn too.
Denis Oštir:
A day has 24 hours. It's absolute. Time is the only absolute thing in our industry. It's got 24 hours, eight hours we sleep, eight hours we're at work, eight hours is what we've got to talk to people. But here's the thing, we're in the attention industry, which means that we are competing with books, playing football outside, playing baseball, walking, eating.
We're competing with attention all over the place. Now, if there's 25 applications, there's not going to be 25 times more time. Time is absolute. There's only eight hours to go. So we need to smartly figure out instead of having one more streaming service with 7.99, another streaming services, 14.99, let's figure out a way of how we properly distribute money among these services, depending on the consumption the customer has done.
The industry is not at this stage yet, but it needs to get to that stage because we also need to understand whether we are not competing just among ourselves. We're competing with this thing, we're competing with the ebook reader over there in the back. We are competing for attention and just fighting among ourselves not going to help us.
Bevin Fletcher:
Yeah. Very interesting. All right. Well, so interesting time in the industry, a lot to look forward to, a lot to work out, but this has been super interesting. Thank you so much for being here with Denis. Thanks for watching and talk to you soon.